Bob Dylan is not just a singing and songwriting legend, he is one of the most enigmatic and reclusive musicians of our time. Playing him in a movie based on his life would be a daunting task for any actor, but when Timothée Chalamet was offered the role, he was 23 and says he knew practically nothing about Dylan. A lot of people told him not to do it, but Chalamet likes a creative challenge. The film, called “A Complete Unknown,” came out in December and received eight Oscar nominations, including Timothée Chalamet’s second best actor nod. He’s never met Bob Dylan, but because of the pandemic, strikes in Hollywood, and other film commitments Chalamet ended up having about five years to study the man and his music. Determined, like Bob Dylan was at his age, to make it great.
Timothée Chalamet: I give 170% in everything I’m doing, no, “But,” there. I’m giving it my all. Something like the Dylan project, these aren’t watered-down experiences. I’m going Daniel Day-Lewis (laugh) on all of them. I’m not saying in process, but I’m saying a level of commitment. And I don’t know, man, it sounds like I’m desperate, saying that or something, but–
Anderson Cooper: No. It sounds like you’re a professional and you want it to be the best it can possibly be.
Timothée Chalamet: Yeah. And– and– and increasingly, I– I– I don’t want to shy away from saying that.
Chalamet, who’s 29 now, didn’t just need to figure out how to sing like Dylan, he also learned how to play harmonica and guitar and about 40 Bob Dylan songs – far more than were originally called for in the script. The movie, set in the early 1960s, follows Bob Dylan’s rapid rise from obscurity to stardom, something Timothée Chalamet could relate to.
Dylan was 19 when he arrived in New York from Minnesota. A complete unknown, he quickly became an icon in the world of folk music. Poetic and political, his songs spoke to the times and a young generation demanding change.
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Dylan got his start in New York at a nightclub called Cafe Wha? in Greenwich Village.
Timothée Chalamet: This was one of his, you know, jump points. This was, like, really a place where you could just go play folk music in the ’60s, early ’60s. And, I went during the movie, during the production, and it ain’t the same.
Anderson Cooper: What were they playing?
Timothée Chalamet: Now it’s Aerosmith covers, (laugh) and, and AC/DC, and, also worthy art, but–
Anderson Cooper: But different.
Timothée Chalamet: –Very different.
When Chalamet started researching Dylan, he did what many millennials likely would – he looked him up on YouTube.
He found this clip particularly insightful, Dylan performing on stage with Joan Baez, with whom he had a romantic relationship.
Timothée Chalamet: What I love about the “It Ain’t Me” performance is how playful it is and what a laugh he’s having. He was the one, at least in the footnotes of history, that wasn’t particularly– let’s say faithful (laugh) with Joan. So I get it from his perspective that he’s havin’ such a laugh. On YouTube now you could play things at 0.5 speed or 0.75 speed. And that was when I really slowed down, ’cause it’s fascinating the way Bob observes her and how he refuses eye contact in that video.
This is Chalamet’s version, with Monica Barbaro playing Joan Baez.
Anderson Cooper: You weren’t trying to imitate Bob Dylan.
Timothée Chalamet: No, totally that was the tension, for me, in doing a biopic on somebody so beloved and so well known was, all right — where does my heart and where does my soul fit into this? Can it fit into this, particularly with someone who was so masked.
To connect with what might be behind Dylan’s mask, Chalamet disconnected from his own life for the two-and-a-half months of filming.
He wouldn’t use his cellphone or have visitors on set.
Timothée Chalamet: I’ve never approached a character so intensely as Bob, ’cause I have such respect for the material. And I knew I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I– if I remembered that I was lazy on a day where something went wrong.
Chalamet pre-recorded all the Dylan songs he’d sing in the movie. They were supposed to be played back on set during filming.
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Timothée Chalamet: And it always sounded too clean. The recording equipment’s too clean now, the guitars are too good. And Bob Dylan was drinkin’ two bottles of red wine a day sometimes, smokin’ 30 packs of cigarettes.
Anderson Cooper: Did you drink two bottles of wine and smoke 30 packs to sound like him–
Timothée Chalamet: The smoking I did. The wine (laugh) I held back on more.
So Chalamet decided he wanted to try and sing and play live instead. This scene was the first time he did it. Dylan’s just arrived in New York and visits his terminally ill hero, folk music legend Woody Guthrie played by Scoot McNairy. Edward Norton is Pete Seeger. On his first take, director James Mangold knew Chalamet nailed it.
James Mangold: There’s a moment in that scene right at the last stanza where he holds a note.
James Mangold: That would never have happened if we’d used the playback track.
Anderson Cooper: Was that in the song originally? Because I mean there was…
James Mangold: No. No.
James Mangold: He just did it. What I see Timmy executing in the scene is the growth of confidence within the song. So by the end of the song, not only is he finishing it looking right at Woody, but he’s also holding it, which is, like, what a grand diva would do in the spotlight. You can’t tell someone to do that. I’m not even sure Timmy completely plans it intellectually. That is, that is that kind of talent.
Anderson Cooper: Did you know you were gonna do that? Was that a planned thing?
Timothée Chalamet: No. Nope, and it would be disingenuous to my– you know, the way I like to act and my approach to stuff.
Anderson Cooper: You don’t have any clue why you did it?
Timothée Chalamet: No, I, it just happened. Yeah. Truly.
That may be true, or it may not, like Dylan, Chalamet is reluctant to talk about how he does what he does. If there is magic in acting, Timothée Chalamet doesn’t want to give it all away.
Anderson Cooper: What’s the concern about revealing the magic?
Timothée Chalamet: It’s nobody’s business how I go about these things. It’s within the law. And, (laughter) and–
Anderson Cooper: It’s within the law.
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Timothée Chalamet: Yeah. And otherwise it might not be as interesting as people think. Or it could be a lot more interesting than people think. It might be more interesting than what I’m doing.
What Chalamet’s done in nearly two dozen films has been plenty interesting. In the “Dune” series he transformed himself from the privileged son of a duke into a menacing messiah.
He’s played Laurie in “Little Women,” and a lovestruck teenager in “Call Me By Your Name.”
He took a risk reinventing Willy Wonka, and has shape shifted between an addled drug addict and a reluctant King Henry the Fifth.
As a child, Chalamet didn’t dream of becoming an actor, though he was surrounded by them. He lived in this rent-subsidized apartment complex in Manhattan full of artists.
Timothée Chalamet: Oh, (laugh) Izzy. How you doin’–
Isador Monsanto: What are you doin’ here? What’s goin’ on, man– (clap)
Timothée Chalamet: Oh, man. Doin’ a little interview, baby.
Isador Monsanto: Good to see you.
Growing up in this building certainly seems to have made an impression.
Timothée Chalamet: This building truthfully made me scared of acting, ’cause it, it, it–
Anderson Cooper: Why?
Timothée Chalamet: Because it’s, it’s a tough lifestyle and a lotta people, you know, aren’t doing–
Anderson Cooper: It’s a hard w– it’s a hard way to—
Timothée Chalamet: –Fantastically.
Anderson Cooper: You would think growing up here, like, it would encourage you to be an actor. But actually–
Timothée Chalamet: No, it actually terrified me (laugh) of becoming an actor–
His mom, Nicole Flender, was a dancer and works with the Actors’ Equity Association. His sister, Pauline Chalamet, is an actress, and Timmy, as his friends and family call him, booked occasional acting jobs as a child – though he told us he really wanted to be a professional soccer player. This is him on “Law & Order” when he was 12.
But his father Marc Chalamet, a French journalist, wasn’t exactly pushing him to act.
Timothée Chalamet: My dad, I think he very, very, very correctly, rightfully was wary growing up. It’s no place for a child. It, it really isn’t, you know. Cameras and people goin’, “Hey, do– do the thing where we recognize you as cute in your own head.” I think my dad was more just, like, “Be normal.”
These days, that’s easier said than done.
When we went to get a slice of pizza, he told us a turning point in his life was getting into LaGuardia High School – a famously competitive public school for the performing arts.
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Timothée Chalamet: It’s a school that champions the arts. So there I doubled down, I was not a distracted kid as a teenager, like, maybe to a fault, you know? I wasn’t, like, partying, or, I don’t, I don’t say that to come off straight-laced. Like, to a fault, I was, like, very–
Anderson Cooper: Focused.
Timothée Chalamet: –focused and driven.
He was cast as the lead in school musicals.
And developed routines for LaGuardia’s talent show as a rapper named Lil’ Timmy Tim.
Timothée Chalamet: This is humiliating, but I’ll show you guys.
He took us to the practice room in his building’s basement where he’d rehearse.
Anderson Cooper: (laugh) How old were you there?
Timothée Chalamet: Here I’m 15, but I look like I’m seven. this is two good friends of mine, Shiree and Desiree. They’re the only people in the world that– (laugh) t– did this talent show act with me. I probably asked 35 people.
He did go to college – Columbia University for a year, and then some classes at New York University. But he dropped out, wanting to focus on acting full time.
Timothée Chalamet: Listen, man, I was– I was struggling– I was struggling. I was struggling with identity and I was struggling with your sense of self-respect, your sense of drive or where you wanna be pales in comparison to where you are.
“Call Me By Your Name” changed everything. He was 21 when it came out, around the same age Bob Dylan was when his career started to take off. Chalamet became the youngest person nominated for an Academy Award for best actor in nearly 80 years.
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We thought he’d relate to something Bob Dylan said about the meaning of destiny to Ed Bradley in a rare interview on “60 Minutes” more than 20 years ago.
Bob Dylan: It–it’s a feeling you have that you know something about yourself nobody else does. The picture you have in your mind of what you’re about will come true. It’s kind of a thing you kind of have to keep to your own self because it’s a fragile feeling and you put it out there and somebody will kill it, so it’s best to keep that all inside.
Timothée Chalamet: Man. Wow.
Anderson Cooper: You’ve watched this interview, a lot?
Timothée Chalamet: Yeah. Probably a thousand times, yeah.
Timothée Chalamet: I always loved what he said about self destiny being fragile.
Anderson Cooper: You believe that, too, that if–
Timothée Chalamet: I believe that, especially early on in life, in your career, when you’re in your early twenties or late teens, And if you can find a way to keep it quiet, but also have a lot of confidence, it’s the best path, you know?
Anderson Cooper: It’s interesting to me that you still haven’t met Bob Dylan.
Timothée Chalamet: Nope. No.
Anderson Cooper: Is that weird to you?
Timothée Chalamet: I mean, it’s not, you know? He doesn’t seem like (laugh) he wants to be bothered by– not me, but by everyone in the last 60, 70 years.
Anderson Cooper: What would you say to him?
Timothée Chalamet: I would say thank you. I would just say, “Thank you.” you know what? That’s bulls**t. I’m gonna take that back. I wouldn’t. You know– (laugh) honestly– I would honestly (laugh) just be like– I would play it super cool, you know? ‘Cause I feel like he’s probably used to so much hyperbole and praise. Maybe I would try to out–
Anderson Cooper: Out-cool (laugh) him?
Timothée Chalamet: Out-Bob him. Not cool, but out-Bob him–
Anderson Cooper: Out-Bob him? (laughter)
Timothée Chalamet: Yeah. Just like, strangely– not bring anything up.
Anderson Cooper: Not even mention that you did (laugh) the movie.
Timothée Chalamet: Yeah. Maybe just talk about, like–
Anderson Cooper: The weather?
Timothée Chalamet: –the weather and, you know, what his favorite sandwich is, or somethin’ like that. (Laughter) Yeah.
Produced by Nichole Marks. Associate producer, John Gallen. Broadcast associate, Grace Conley. Edited by Daniel J. Glucksman.
